11/16/04 

Hey David;
Hello! This is Lisa-Anice from San Francisco. About your comment on the
From: Lisa-Anice Sutphen <lisaanicedancer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Try a little Honey...
To: Swingandhustle@aol.com
Scott Petersen verdict-
The baby was 8 months along. This makes for a
just-on-this-side-of-the-fence scenario, as it was likely that the fetus was
viable, i.e., capable of sustaining life outside the womb. Ergo the double
murder. As for Father's rights, they depend on state law, which of course
differs from state to state. However, to the best of my knowledge NO father has
the right to commit abortion if the mother wants the child

11/17/04

Whoa.....
You are quite right-to a point. NOTHING lives outside it's intended
environment. Viability- 'sufficiently developed to be able to live outside the
uterus' ( that's straight from Good ol' Mr. Webster), has NOTHING to do with
personhood. The latter is a separate issue that cannot be defined by the
laity....
As far as viability goes, any uterus, cocoon, sac or sheath is designed to
protect the development unto it's utmost extent. This is made most obvious by
the simple fact that, in most first pregnancies, the child arrives late. It's
the bodies' way of making sure all the t's are crossed.
Legal viability in this state, as I remember, is 24 weeks- the latter half
of the seventh month. Scott Petersen's murdered bride was, at thirty-two weeks,
eight months along, thereby satisfying legal viability. Mr. Petersen killed two
people.....
Divorce wasn't an issue here- it was simply a story Scott told his
mistress to keep her happy. Personal morality is just that-personal. As a
Catholic, my personal feelings regarding divorce and abortion are clear-AND
PERSONAL. 
Personal feelings and common sense should not mix and mingle in the eyes
of the law. The founding fathers built this country's laws on common sense and
the concept that all men[sic] are created equal. They designed the basis for a
judiciary that believes in the right to choose; to choose one's home, one's
religion, one's education, one's diet, one's clothing, one's.....you get the
picture. Anyone whose actions interfere with anybody else's right to choose is
committing a crime. That simple. I challenge you to show me an exception
outside of those who have been taken 'into the system'....The abortion issue is
the weakest link in the chain of the right to choose. But, if that link is
removed, the very foundations upon which this country was built become severely
threatened....
Expectant mothers in this society are described as being sick on the books
of the insurance companies and by OSHA. Some have even gone so far as to call
the fetus 'a parasitic growth'. Many lose their jobs and have difficulty
finding new ones. The Family Leave Act, though law, is proving difficult to
enforce in cases of pregnancy. In short, the average women is penalized for her
being 'in the family way' when she should be lauded and raised up for her part
in the miracle of life. Financially penalised by both work and mounting medical
bills, her very privacy is constantly invaded by complete strangers who want to
touch her and give unsolicited advice. And now the extreme right(I would cut my
tongue out before I would call them religious) wants to criminalize them
further by enslaving them for the duration of gestation. What a mess, one
created by a society that only values a dollar sign, one that they could get
yesterday....
It is sad to view things in such a black-and-white manner as to assume
that to straddle the fence or refuse to discuss the issue as a woman simply
means that I've had an abortion. Life is in color, with all the grey areas and
shadings, and is most enjoyed when embraced in it's full spectrum. The bad is
there to make the good seem even better. I do not ask people to live up to my
standards, because all relationships are about boundaries.....
I bid you good day.
Lisa-Anice Sutphen

11/18/04

1. Look up the name John Locke.
2. Look up the word 'proselytize'
I am not sure that you know this, but your manner in your email is coming
across as argumentative and arrogant.
I believe you'll catch more flies with honey, and I will not longer be insulted
with this dialogue.
Remove me from your lists, please.
Lisa-Anice

11/18/04 Second Letter

It has nothing to do with being consevative or liberal, catholic,
protestant, whatever. My political views are based in mindful realism, my
religious ones on idealities, personal tastes, and the truths I hold in my own
heart....my own intellect tells me that it is unwise to mix the two: at the
same time it tells me that for many there is no two; religion and politics for
them are one and the same. In my thinking, this latter is a dangerous platform,
as there can only be peace between those whose minds, hearts and souls are cut
from the same cloth; all else becomes dissent and discord....
Lisa-Anice

11/19/04

faith and morals do not religion make....our laws are actually based in the
observations of historians and philosophers (as put in text) of the ancient
civilizations: Plato, Herodotus, Pliny the Elder, to name but a few. The Koran,
the Torah, the Old Testament are all praised highly for their historical values
and contributions to the arts of prose, allegory, and metaphor. The Naustics
devoted their lives to multiple translations of the Old testament books,
including the forbidden texts. There are Jewish sects devoted to the same
pursuit of knowledge through the study of all these aforementioned scholars,
philosophers, and teachers....
Your second statement tells me that all men are animals; none have the
capacity for rising above the level of any other creature on earth. If we are
truly of a higher order, then the supposedly 'feminist' statement must be
true....

11/19/04

Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:55:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Lisa-Anice Sutphen <lisaanicedancer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Try a little Honey...
To: Swingandhustle@aol.com
I don't see how it runs against my faith to allow others the right to
choose -rightly or wrongly. There is no one way to God,or Allah, or whatever
name the unenlightened give that which is common to all and individual to each.
I think it presumptious , no, I actually consider it self-deifying to think
that my ideas/interpretations about God and his teachings to be the only right
ones. I think it both short of sight to think that my road to love and inner
peace to be the only one there is, and a defect of character to condemn those
who say they have found the same end via different means....I have no interest
in winning an argument as, by dint of its very definition, there are no
winners. If winning is what you seek here, find a bigger fool. All you have
proven to me is your own prejudice, not your wisdom. You have shown your desire
to try to twist things to your own end, rather than actually pay attention and
address each issue as I have pointed them out. I don't think you are even on
the same page as I....insisting that I must be lesbian or feminist or that I
must be evil simply because I do not agree with you. I call you to task on some
facts regarding the Scott Petersen case, which you wrote on a mass email about
dancing. And then I am accused of proselytizing when the comments about
religious support was thrust at me....I do not deny the fact that I have gotten
a lot of good information, but it is not from what you have written me. It has
been through your manner, your condescension, your quickness to judge and label
and categorize. These are the tools of an angry man, one who is not at peace
with the world, one who is very small inside....I have no wish for religious or
political opinions to be thrown at me under the disguise of a dance website or
newsletter; it is just too close to a bait-and-switch operation. I am done with
being insulted by your midwest mentality....
Remove me from your lists and send no more emails to this address....
Lisa-Anice Sutphen